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Post by Tangerine Sherlock on Dec 9, 2011 22:25:38 GMT 1
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Post by april13th1970 on Dec 9, 2011 22:37:59 GMT 1
Germany basically got her economy rebuilt for free by the Americans after the war.
Britain spent the next 40 something years repaying the Amreicans for the help they "gave" us
so everything we've acheived we've worked for and buit by our own endeavours, despite the commie union bosses attempts to undermine it, whereas they've had it handed to them on a plate.
If Cameron finally growing a pair and standing up for all we as a nation have achieved makes the Germans sick, frankly, I don't care if they choke on their own vomit
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Post by yeoldetangerine on Dec 10, 2011 9:53:37 GMT 1
Or alternatively Dodgy Dave protected his mates in the city ( you know, the ones that caused the problem in the first place) from a transaction tax, at the expense of isolating the UK from their major market. And for those who immediately talk about the US and Japan, they use us, as slightly less regulated, as their way into Europe. The next Toyota or Nissan factory will not be in the UK, we will not ween ourselves off reliance on the City, and growth (!) will be even slower. The meat and potatoes of the agreement was to get countries to balance their budgets, is that a bad thing? Far better to be on the inside pxssing out, than the outside pxssing in RIP the UK economy (blue touchpaper lit, retires to safe distance!!!!!!)
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Post by yenilira on Dec 10, 2011 17:23:36 GMT 1
Didn't attract any animosity whilst we were there, especially in the last day or so: maybe it's cause the ordinary German (and French-person) isn't of the likes of Merkel or Sarkozy.
YL.
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Post by april13th1970 on Dec 10, 2011 17:26:49 GMT 1
So basically, the French and Germans in attempting to achieve by financial means what their former leaders failed to do by military means, namely take over Europe, have shafted themselves by tieing themselves to the weaker economies in Europe through the Euro and they expect us Brits to bail them out !!
We stood for a long time alone against the might of Napoleon's French Empire and eventually with our allies defeated them, We stood for a long time alone against the Third Reich and eventually with our allies defeated them.
This time we're standing alone against the massed ranks of Euro bureaucrats. No prizes for guessing who my money is on
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Post by yeoldetangerine on Dec 10, 2011 21:35:30 GMT 1
April, I'll follow you over the top, but won't vote for you LOL
My issue is the practicality that our banks are major creditors to Greece and Italy, and if the Eurozone wants to, it could make EU signatories preferential creditors, and our banks would get a major "pants down" again. I have no more desire than you to live in a Franco German Europe, but I'd far rather we were on the inside pxssing out than the outside pxssing in. It will be used to settle every grudge for the last 100 years, our markets will disappear, the City, currently congratulating themselves on avoiding another tax, will find themselves isolated from the Burse, the US and Japan will move towards Germany, and our economy will not grow. 1 little country cannot survive alone, every region has it's grouping, Africa, Asia, Pacific, unpalatable, but unfortunately, unarguable.
What we should be doing is NEGOTIATING to improve the EU, budget responsibility, debt reduction and crap regulations. Even the head of UKIP says we now have the worst of both worlds.
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Post by Tangerine Sherlock on Dec 11, 2011 11:42:49 GMT 1
yeold as much as you hate the PM and his city mates its those same said city mates that will have to get us out of the mess anyway.
Plus as a country we are getting closer links with china and trade more greatly with them than any other EU country at the moment, as for the money the UK banks have invested in Greece and Italy as one financial expert but it this morning that is the ace in the pack.
Germany and France are fully aware that if they try and turn us over the banks could call the loans in which would downgrade the credit rating to zero and make the Euro go belly u.
as for America they to busy worrying if china will call in the loans seeing they own 65% of the American debt lol.
As for the politicians they just busy scoring points of each other lol Just reading in my Sunday paper and most money experts are saying that we are actually in a good position and the main problems are the French and German banks are actually in a worse state than ours and if anything could go bang on a grand scale.
maybe we need a new political party in this country everybody blames the Conservatives, the lib Dem's are finished and labor as no right to say anything seeing they spent most of the money and got close to the bankers to help fund their party election chest.
here is a radical idea let the normal average UK citizens run the country after all we could not do much worse.
up the tangerine party
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Post by yeoldetangerine on Dec 11, 2011 14:00:12 GMT 1
Sherlock, always a pleasure to debate with someone who really thinks things through, rather than the Knee jerk media driven "I know I'm right and your wrong ", I have always respected your opinion. I don't hate DC or the City, I just don't trust them to look out for the country and not themselves. Years ago, I met a few MP's like Douglas Herd and Peter Carrington, people who were committed to using their privelidged background for the good of the country, they used to call it duty. In my opinion, the City, and NYSE and Bourse, etc, were the cause of the economic collapse, so I think we have to look elsewhere for our salvation. They failed to do their due diligence on the bundles of Bonds they were selling each other, and when the US slowed, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac had huge defaults, and these were the basis of these bonds. Add to that the money lent to all these countries now close to default, Greece and Italy, but don't forget the Celtic Tiger Ireland,Iceland, and the Iberian Peninsula. I genuinely cannot understand why anyone thinks these same people who caused it worldwide are the solution. I think every government since the late 70's failed to understand the need to split retail banking from investment, that was why UKGov had to bail the banks out. It terrifies me that 3 years after the first major fail, despite lots of words, reports, etc, we still have the banks doing both, and are still as vulnerable as ever to a bank default having to be bailed out. As I am so warped, |I think they are dragging their feet cos it is pretty good to be backed by a government if you fail, helps your credit rating. If you look at who is doing well, it is the countries that make stuff, and dig stuff out of the ground to sell to the countries that make stuff, particularly if their living costs and expectations are much lower than ours. As someone who spent his career in manufacturing until we took this business on 7 years ago, I think our safe way out of the mess is to get businesses making stuff, high tech, small and high value, which countries with money such as China, Australia, Russia, Brazil and India, the Oil and Gas producers will want to buy. Now if the Tangerine Party is for that, I'll sign up now, I have no faith at all in the current crop of Politicians of any stripe to have the imagination to get us out of the mess. DC is beholden to the City, EM is beholden to the Unions, not too sure about NC. We need a business led solution, not a Financial Services solution. We need to moderate our Nimbyism and exploit our own resources, be that Fracgas, wave/tidal power, deep mined coal, and believe me, as a committed environmentalist for the last 40 years, i too have had to change my views. I now talk about resource efficiency rather than green stuff. Of course, I could be talking bxllocks !!!
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Post by Tangerine Sherlock on Dec 11, 2011 14:48:17 GMT 1
I don't trust the banks as far as i could throw them either just know they are going to have to do the hard work to get us out of it. Your right in that retail and business banking needs splitting and this would be forced through by the tangerine party and for business to be given the chance to grow and support they need. IE start lending them some money!!! As for the rubbish about wages and bonus to the wankers sorry bankers their will always be good people willing to do a good Job for a fair wage not wages of 1-2 million, plus the threat they would leave the country is wide of the mark as we have on of the lowest taxation polices in the world. The country has the resources so investment should be put into manufacturing again and the unions need sorting over the years they have caused more harm than good of course people should have a way of showing their unhappiness with working conditions and pay but under a tangerine party take over this would be sorted out. Sadly many managers in jobs in the NHS and Police and other Public jobs would have find new employment so that the red tape and money eaten up by these jobs could be freed up and put to good use like paying a nurse a good wage for example. and seeing its Christmas Elf and safety would have to be addressed and half of the silly things that have been put in place that are restricting and strangling business removed and of course where theirs blame theirs a claim would be banned so that's lawyers out of a job too. and finally the FA would be forced to promote the Pool to the premiership and to tell step ladder of FIFA to go whistle on all matters football and sky TV to show all sport channels on digital TV for a fee of 2 pounds only a month
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Post by yeoldetangerine on Dec 11, 2011 15:27:10 GMT 1
OK that'd fine for the first couple of months, what do we do then?? ;D
Seriously, considering the difference in what we would say our politics is, we agree about a huge amount.
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Post by Tangerine Sherlock on Dec 11, 2011 15:46:13 GMT 1
think that is what is annoying to lots of people no matter what their political leanings we all know what we would do but it never gets done by the people we elected to do it.
As for whats next illegal immigrants would be a start for fooks sake we are a island, then maybe looking at this business of Sunday trading and changing bank holidays so the Friday before the Monday is a national holiday as well, true we might loose some productivity but will raise the spirits of people.
and then to take us to a full year fuel tax reduced and road tax increased so that all those that run fuel guzzling cars pay more road tax while those that choose a more environmental car pay less.
and to be really novel spend the money sorting out the transport system and roads
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