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Post by yenilira on Feb 27, 2011 1:24:00 GMT 1
Just looking back at a few old articles (again!) and one thing I've noticed is that whenever we talk about the Club's finances - there seems to be a wall of silence.... except on the very rare occasion it's discussed or raised ('Money is no Object' - Whit, 17th February, etc.) and any questions asked on how much we received from Sky/PL, etc., or the Club's 'Statement of Accounts', how much we are in the black, etc., etc., nobody seems to want to discuss this topic in detail or give a hard and fast concrete answer. Now, I'm not suggesting we have a "DIM £0" or "Dawson", and their 'financial accounts for a £1' on this board, but surely we have someone in the financial world, or has leanings thereto, on here who can explain, clarify, and confirm our financial well-being, and other such items in KO's back pocket. Anyone? YL.
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Post by bigjohncraven on Feb 27, 2011 12:06:07 GMT 1
If your looking for someone to explain the offside law,I'm your man but as far as the murky world of money I reckon your on your own,sorry. though why we feel the need to save on the Hare's wages is well and truly beyond me.
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Post by whitstabletangerin on Feb 27, 2011 13:34:28 GMT 1
Yeni, my dear friend, I am in the wilderness when it comes down to discussing the club's financies. The lack of response from posters is probably due to little or no info., ask a question however about Charlie and you would get a wealth of posts. Blackpool as long as I have supported it, has never been a wealthy club and many times even in the good old days of the fifties and early sixties we struggled with our financies and on one or two occasions since then, have come very close to meltdown. I would just like to ask you this question, as supporters of the club are we "entitled" to know just what the income from various sources amounts to, or should we remain like mushrooms in the dark?. If I was honest, I would say that providing we are solvent and can continue to build on what we have I would much prefer to stay as we are with the Oystons and not go into middle eastern or some other foreign hands, I just couldn't get used to splashing out £20mil + on players and being forever in the top 6 of the Premier league, it just wouldn't feel like Blackpool F C. Yeni, it's not that I am not interested in your quest, far be it, just not clever enough to give you the answer you require.
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Post by yenilira on Feb 27, 2011 16:08:23 GMT 1
Thanks, Whit: unfortunately I'm working at the moment, and will be able later to give an answer to your points. YL.
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Post by yeoldetangerine on Feb 27, 2011 16:19:07 GMT 1
Thinking of making a takeover bid, Yeni? Nah, you are too nice to put up with all the abuse. Mind you, preseason tour in Turkey would be a lot more fun than last year's Latvia!!
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Post by Tangerine Sherlock on Feb 27, 2011 17:54:36 GMT 1
year end accounts 2009 summary if it helps yeni
1. There was a decline in turnover of £299,000 (from £7.2 million to £6.9 million).
2. The wage bill increased by £988,000 (from £4.3 million to £5.2 million), the effect of the countless loan players no doubt!
3. There was a trading loss after tax of £1,117,887. This is compared to £263,003 the year previous.
4. The club, at the time of the accounts being published, had tangible assets of £8,575,206.
5. The accounts show a purchase of £1,234,890 by the football club relating to the ground and Squires Gate. It has been suggested that this relates to the new training ground.
6. Karl Oyston has a loan from the club of £42,523 (up from £30,321 the year previous). This loan is interest free.
7. Blackpool Football Club Limited owe £3,022,753 to Segesta Limited.
8. There is a payment on account of £3,022,763 to Promenade Construction Limited for construction of the first stage of the South and South West Stand. This company is owned and controlled by director and majority shareholder Owen Oyston.
9. There is a loan of £227,500 to Oystons Estates Limited (owned and controlled by Owen Oyston). This loan is interest free and will be paid back by 30 December 2010.
10. There are two interest free loans on the books for Valery Belokon. One is for £2.7 million (his original investment as the accounts show the same amount for the year previous?) which is owed to Vlada Belokon (his daughter, possibly listed as the loanee for tax purposes?). The second is for £2.5 million and is owed to VB Football Assets Limited, which is owned and controlled by Mr Belokon. The accounts do not list any shares as being owned by Mr Belokon, despite him apparently owning around 20% of the club.
11. There are several amounts of money owed to Owen Oyston, including £435,214 owed to Protoplan Limited for work related to the construction of the ground. Protoplan will be repaid all monies from occupiers of the North and West Stands less a 10% administrative fee. Segesta Limited have also paid £331,094 to Protoplan Limited by way of an interest free loan.
12. There was a grant of £2,640,792 from the Football League in 2001 for the redevelopment of the West Stand.
13. Other companies noted in the accounts for varying reasons that are also owned by Owen Oyston are Denwis Limited, Ridings Publishing Company Limited, Oystons Limited and Promenade Interiors Limited.
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Post by Tangerine Sherlock on Feb 27, 2011 18:07:09 GMT 1
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Post by bigjohncraven on Feb 27, 2011 19:17:23 GMT 1
well that lot makes the offside law look straight forward. Look its simple,its called capitalism,the rich guys pass the money around between themselves and we pay the tax. Not only that but we have to look complete tits walking round with wonga written on our chests as well. Love Blackpool,Hate capitalism.
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Post by Tangerine Sherlock on Feb 27, 2011 19:40:41 GMT 1
umm was rather depressed after reading it, money laundering anybody? wonder if they will give me a interest free loan after all i have been making regular payments to them for 30 years....
yeni you opened a great big can of worms here lol
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Post by roadchefourstands on Feb 27, 2011 20:22:38 GMT 1
...to lighten the mood, would DinloYen have a similar breakdown of the nobbers ? ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Tangerine Sherlock on Feb 27, 2011 20:45:24 GMT 1
well here is a very basic summary of their accounts last year
turnover 8.51 million
profit/ loss 9.17 million
total loss for the year 17.68 million ouch
share price at start of the last financial year 3.14, share price now 95 pence
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Post by roadchefourstands on Feb 27, 2011 22:34:59 GMT 1
I thought there were no shares anymore, TH carried on buying them up until he got 90% and then took the rest at 5p in the pound each.
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Post by Tangerine Sherlock on Feb 27, 2011 22:41:56 GMT 1
according to share checker you can still trade in them
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Post by yenilira on Feb 28, 2011 1:17:08 GMT 1
Whit: "...are we entitled.." technically, in a way, yes. On the other hand.... All Statements of A/c are open to view by all and sundry, by the law, and as supporters of the Club we have a moral right to know and see where our money goes, and what it is spent on. Never mind the legal aspect of same. I, and I suspect, many others, would wholeheartedly agree with you in saying "...providing we are solvent.../...not go into ME hands.." Ye Olde: takeover bid? How many camels would it take to buy out the Oyston mob? Pre-season? I'm working on it, tho' not a tour. Sher: Thanks. It's becoming a lot clearer now. Taking at it at face value there does seem to be a whiff of ML.... and it just goes to show how many pies the Oyston clan have their finger stuck in. The only thing now is exactly what we have received from the PL/Sky, especially as the above provided by Sher does not include any finances since August 2010. Cheers again, guys. YL.
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Post by Tangerine Sherlock on Feb 28, 2011 7:55:05 GMT 1
you will have to wait to year end yeni.. march time i am afraid for that info lol. so by the time the books have been to Mr Ramsey's for a bit of cooking we might be able to see the finished pudding around may time lol. under the new rules football clubs have to make the end of year accounts accessible to everybody
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Post by yenilira on Feb 28, 2011 8:35:43 GMT 1
Thanks again. Morning All! YL.
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Post by bigjohncraven on Mar 1, 2011 13:26:25 GMT 1
just thought I would open this money debate up a bit.
Accounts lodged at Companies House last week for the Villa Park club's parent company, Reform Acquisitions, show Lerner has overseen the growth of revenues from £37.2m in 2006-7 – his first full season as a Premier League club owner – to £90.9m in 2010.
But alongside that strong growth has been the vaulting expansion of the wage bill. Villa's salary payments amounted to £22.4m in Lerner's first year, a just about sustainable 60% of the club's turnover. Today they have reached £79.9m or nearly 88% of the club's total revenues.
Losses last year were marginally down, from £46.1m in 2009 to £37.5m, but that was broadly attributable to the better returns from the transfer market. Booked net investment on players was down to £12.2m from £20m the previous year.
Yet still Villa are burning through Lerner's fortune. The US billionaire has injected £115.6m in equity and another £89.6m has come in through shareholder loans. Investments in player transfers alone have amounted to £138.8m but where it really counts – in the league table – there is precious little to show for it.
Someone tell me how or even if we can compete with these kind of figures being bandied about.
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Post by pikeypete on Mar 1, 2011 17:36:42 GMT 1
The short answer is no we can't and in the long term neither should we want to. Football is a high risk investment and just occasionaly, as in Blackpools case, it reaps big rewards. The club will be worth 10 times what it was 3 years ago. To sustain any business you need to make a profit or attract new investment based on potential earnings. It's hard to imagine that Blackpools potential is much better than the current situation so logic would be that any businessman would be looking to cash in whilst we're at the peak of our turnover and profit. This will either be in dividends or by selling capital shares. It's time to find out wether Karl is really in it for the clubs long term future or for his own financial gain. Hummm let me guess? Much as I admire and respect KO (and we owe him a lot) don't be surprised if he looks to lessen his exposure (ie sell some shares) in the near future and/or give himself a whopping dividend.
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Post by yenilira on Mar 1, 2011 18:17:58 GMT 1
Good points there, Pete. And thanks.
I think everyone will agree with you when you say that we want the club to be sustained as a viable proposition financially, like we are now, without all the upheaval of players being bought for say, £5-6million apiece, and, if any other investor does comes in, provided he/she is British, and/or having a greater interest in Football as a game, unlike most Americans who really don't understand what football in the UK is all about, or what it means to the fans, and continues the way we are run presently, I personally would have no objection.
Agreed, that if we stay in the Prem this and/or next season, it is imperative that the purse-strings are loosened slightly - otherwise we will not survive in the financial hurly-burly of this league.
As to Karl being in it ....etc., I would venture and say - both. Hopefully. The former more than the latter, though, from our point of view.
Firstly, I don't think he would sanction the building of the South, then the East, and at this season's end, the completion of the 'corners' and the under-soil heating (?) if the former was untrue. Secondly - he is after all, a businessman first and foremost, and it would be to his advantage to build up Bloomfield Road -the 'speculate to accummulate' scenario, and, again, hopefully, with little or no risk involved.
The two subject are unequivocally related, whether we like it or not.
On the other hand, particularly with him recently getting wed - just like you suggest - there is the possibly in the (near?) future of him taking a more of a back seat at the Club and installing someone as CEO or whatever.
YL.
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Post by yeoldetangerine on Mar 1, 2011 21:43:29 GMT 1
At the risk of giving Sandgrown'un a heart attack.
If we survive, and continue to offer Premier league football in Blackpool, and Preston struggle in League 1, there is a much larger pool of folk in North Lancs who may come to Bloomfield Road. I'd love to see a bit of promotion up in my neck of the woods in South Cumbria, too.
And if KO does get a good divi, good luck to him, after the time and energy he has put in, and the ill informed abuse with which he has to suffer
But as many have previously pointed out, gate money is a mere bagatelle comapre to the TV and marketing money. I guess we have to play the long game, and hope that, in time, real world economics are made to apply to Football
<lowflyingcamelsmiley>
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Post by Tangerine Sherlock on Mar 1, 2011 21:53:38 GMT 1
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Post by yenilira on Mar 2, 2011 1:44:18 GMT 1
Sher - you probably don't realise what you've just said could be classed as 'never a truer word spoken in jest' !
Our wage bill is £6million pa, espec. with the lads' take home pay in the close-season being £90 pw. - I have just seen this confirmed -which outlay is the lowest in the Prem..... and what our dear friend Platini would like for every team to work on.
YL.
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