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Post by yeoldetangerine on Jan 25, 2012 10:27:57 GMT 1
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/16701603.stmI have huge sympathy with this. I am sick to death of our club competing with clubs which don't bother to pay their taxes or suppliers, gaining totally unfair advantage. In recent years, Cardiff were technically bust but still allowed to go on to the playoffs Portsmouth offered more per week for Vardy, and do not have the money to pay their tax bill, I loved the comment from HMRC about taxes not being available to help cash flow. I loathe the Football creditors first rule, and think this will be successfully challenged in the High Court this year. Darlington have no money, no ground, no employees, yet the League changes the rules to allow them to continue playing. Of course I have every sympathy with any club's supporters, but, until someone significant goes out of business, club boards will not learn that they have to run their business in the same way as every other business in the country. And breathe LOL
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Post by april13th1970 on Jan 25, 2012 13:41:58 GMT 1
I'll probably get slaughtered for saying this but . . .
I really do hope Pompey go bust !!!
Time and time again they have weaseled their way out of through one legal loophole after another, continuing to trade with money that isn't really theirs whilst sending small local businesses in Portsmouth out of business !!
And before anyone says it's unfair on their supporters . . . .
Would those be the same supporters who not too many years ago were crowing about the likely demise of their local rivals at Southampton ? Well, it's payback time and KARMA'S A BITCH !!
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Post by yeoldetangerine on Jan 25, 2012 14:18:17 GMT 1
April, I have changed my mind over the years and now agree with you 100%, fundamentally what happens now is immoral
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Post by pikeypete on Jan 25, 2012 14:20:57 GMT 1
I wouldn't like to see any team go out of business.
It could have been us a few years back and that would leave a big hole in many people lives, including mine. Football teams are more important than many businesses because they represent local pride, ambition, status not to mention entertainment and a sense of belonging.
Whats needed is tight financial controls when actually running a club to prevent rediculous wages, signing players you can't afford etc. In other words not building your castle on sand.
It's within the FAs gift to do this and the sooner they wake up and make some boundries for the Directors to work within the better.
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Post by Tangerine Sherlock on Jan 25, 2012 14:58:04 GMT 1
Hence the weekly poll question that is currently running. I for one do not wish to see any club go bust as i believe that in some cases going to see their local team is all some people have to look forward to each week.
First and foremost what i think needs to happen is a salary cap for each division its already getting out of hand and this in turn brings down players wage demands and transfer fees etc and the FA wants to stop mucking around and wasting money on grading of football academys.
how much would it really cost for the FA to fund a basic academy set up at all lower clubs which in turn helps bring players through etc etc
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Post by pikeypete on Jan 25, 2012 15:21:03 GMT 1
The only issue I have with the poll is that it should be the FA and not the Government that needs to set the rules re suitability. Its time the FA got their house in order and set the ground rules before the whole system becomes corrupt. And I mean corrupt not just financially incompetent.
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Post by yeoldetangerine on Jan 25, 2012 15:35:09 GMT 1
Totally respect your views, guys, and, yes, understand exactly what you are saying about giving life a purpose, pride etc.
But the FL haven't set rules, 20 odd years after clubs started going bust, these businesses don't pay their taxes ( wish I could get away with that), and, for the very good reasons you put, THEY ARE ALLOWED TO GET AWAY WITH IT, it is simply unfair. Many of us are struggling, why on earth shouldn't footballers and the club execs take their share? I think it is the bit about Reg that has really got to me, they pay him more than us, but they can't afford it, elsewhere that would be fraud. And as long as they dupe us with sentimental appeals to history, they will be allowed to blunder on, wrecking other businesses.
My action plan
1 Abolish Football creditors rule 2 Don't pay your tax and be wound up, start in 1 year, be amazing how fast they would sort themselves 3 UEFA rules on living within your income for all clubs, not just those qualifying for Europe 4 Proper Directors fitness test, and we should be aware that may hit very close to home 5 If you go into administration, relegated, do it again within x years, and thrown out of the League
You guys know me, I don't often get that wound up, but this has really got to me today.
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Post by Tangerine Sherlock on Jan 25, 2012 17:38:35 GMT 1
I agree about the taxes why should they be exempt? also the footballers themselves are avoiding tax and are being helped out by some clubs hot shot legal teams and lets not forget the Managers as a certain High court case that is going on at the moment.
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Post by pikeypete on Jan 25, 2012 18:07:13 GMT 1
Maybe the current court cases here and in Scotland will start the clean up campaign. I certainly hope so! Yes they should pay their taxes, like everyone else, and if they can't then the club should be liquidated and sold to the fans as a first option in a share issue. They would then appoint a board and have an AGM to re-appoint or otherwise. I'm sure this happened to a few German Clubs and has been very successful. www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/feb/13/football-supporter-owned-clubsIts a crazy industry and I would love to hear the views of Ollie and Karl.
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Post by Tangerine Sherlock on Jan 25, 2012 18:22:55 GMT 1
Selling back to the fans sounds like a good idea okay they would have to start again but from the flames and all that..
and as much as it pains me something Karl like is happening at the other end of the M55 not good for the fans and funny for us but basically they cleaning house getting all the over paid players of the books and starting again.
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Post by yeoldetangerine on Jan 25, 2012 18:40:52 GMT 1
All for fan run clubs, definitely fans as directors, not sure how you would get enough dosh to buy from admin/liquidators, but if it works in Germany, why not.
I think there is another approach as well, to badly run clubs. It is an offence to run any business that you, as a director, know is not viable. Why don't the DTI, or whatever they are currently called, make an example of a club or two? I really believe that if a club has a major disaster, ie liquidated, or maybe heavily fined, directors disqualifed, etc it will encourage all the other chairman to stop living on fantasy and get on with running it sustainably. That will be a real bonus to those excellent folk who do it already, because they would, for the first time in 20 odd years, all be playing by the same rules.
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Post by sandgrown'un on Jan 25, 2012 18:41:25 GMT 1
I agree that clubs should be more accountable and punishments should be severe. There should be greater vetting of potential owners, especially foreign ones who dont appear to have the moral scruples that we in this country usually abide by.
I cannot in all honesty and with any peace of mind or conscience though agree that any club should be put out of business.
I am sure the Pompey fans would love to see an owner like KO in charge and I m sure they would agree to the tightening of the rules. Unluckily for their fans they havnt had a decent owner in years but its hardly their fault
I dont know the answer and fully understand the emotions this subject brings to the surface and knowing Ye Olde fairly well totally respect and understand where he is coming from.
All I can say is maybe we should consider walking a mile in a Pompey fans shoes before advocating flushing their club down the toilet.
I certainly count my blessings as a Blackpool fan.
Who loves yer Karl
UP THE POOL
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Post by april13th1970 on Jan 25, 2012 18:51:10 GMT 1
Sany, I don't need to walk a mile in a Pompey fan's shoes, I worked in Portsmouth for 4 years and lived just a few miles away so I met a large number of Pompey fans and have to say without exception I found them to be vindictive, hateful and vile to a man.
their hatred of Southampton (when compared to the mild dislike shown towards Portsmouth by Southampton fans) made the realtionship between even the most rabid Seasiders and Knobbers look like a love-in.
If their club does go under, I can't think of a group of "fans" that deserve it more !!
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Post by sandgrown'un on Jan 25, 2012 20:15:07 GMT 1
April, I happen to be very good friends with a couple of diehard Pompey fan while at the same time I have access to an executive box at St Marys with some equally die hard friends of Saints persuasion . Those Saints fans that I know are just as bad as the Pompey lot.
Which is all by the by anyway because it is irrelevant which club it is, the fans dont deserve to lose it because they have done nothing wrong.
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Post by yeoldetangerine on Jan 25, 2012 20:31:40 GMT 1
Cheers for the views, guys, what I love about this site is we can have such different views, but still treat each other with respect. What Sandgrown'un said about overseas owners is so true, not surprising when one considers how many of them became so wealthy.
I do believe the status quo will not remain, I think HMRC will win it's case re football creditors, maybe that will open the door, and no more clubs will need to go
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Post by april13th1970 on Jan 25, 2012 20:45:53 GMT 1
Sandy, we've obviously both had very different experiences of Portsmouth & Southampton fans, so i suggest we agree to disagree on this
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Post by yeoldetangerine on Jan 25, 2012 21:05:04 GMT 1
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Post by Tangerine Sherlock on Jan 25, 2012 21:26:35 GMT 1
some teams must be shaking, maybe some English clubs as well as Sky TV have not entered a bid yet for the premiership TV rights because of the ruling of the European court over the case of the landlady who won the case to show games from another provider
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Post by yeoldetangerine on Jan 26, 2012 9:17:48 GMT 1
Maybe that is why Karly is sitting on the dosh, he thinks parachute payments will dry up, half the Prem will be bust without their Sky "fix"
Oh dear, what a shame, never mind
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